Just a Part of the Problem

Apparently people do not believe they are "American" even after being elected to a political position inside tUSA. A councilwoman in Huntington Park, CA doesn't seem to think that she is an "American".

http://www.loscerritosnews.net/2012/08/28/latina-huntington-park-council-member-claims-city-problems-caused-by-americans/


I have run into hundreds of individuals in California that feel the exact same way. Many of them were born here. They refer to themselves as "Mexican". Of course to be fair, that is a problem with tUSA. Most of us call ourselves "German", "Irish", "Korean", etc. People please. Unless you hold citizenship in the country in which you claim, you are what everyone else in the world calls an "American". Most of the people making these heritage claims haven't even seen the country they are claiming. All it does is aid in keeping us divided. Yeah, hold on to your heritage. I do. But for fuck's sake, quit calling yourself something you are not.

My rant is now over. You may continue on with the rest of your eventful or otherwise uneventful day

Yep. It seems to me that people might be confusing a couplke of terms. An Irish America I think is someone who came to our country from Ireland and became a citizen. But a person of Irish Descent (like myself) is someone born here but who's ancestors came from Ireland.

Teddy Roosevelt wrote:

We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn't doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Well, I'm not against someone retaining one's own language, but they ought to try as hard as they can to learn English....the predominant language here. And they should consider themselves as American and try as hard as possible to be American here.

Dennis324 wrote:Yep. It seems to me that people might be confusing a couplke of terms. An Irish America I think is someone who came to our country from Ireland and became a citizen. But a person of Irish Descent (like myself) is someone born here but who's ancestors came from Ireland.

Man, don't get me started on this one. The amount of times I've heard "Oh, you're Irish? My great-great-great grandfather came over from Ireland, that makes me Irish too!"... Coming over here, wearing the arran sweaters and the tweed caps, trying to out-Irish the Irish - we just call them "plastic paddies" and feel no shame in separating them from their tourist dollars in exchange for some green-colored crap and a stupid leprechaun hat.

Seriously though, America is pretty much the only country that does this - Australia has as much of a history of immigration as the US does in its founding years (bunch of crims and convicts....:p), but you never hear an Aussie say they're "Irish-Australian" or "Japanese-Australian", they're just "Australian". I get the "be proud of where your family comes from" bit, but some people take it way too far. Is something to do with the fact that there's not a lot of history in America yet, so ppl feel the need to acquire some from someone else. Heard a great saying a few weeks ago, "the difference between an irishman and an american is an irishman thinks 100 miles is a long way, and an american thinks 100 years is a long time".

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Well, I'm not against someone retaining one's own language, but they ought to try as hard as they can to learn English....the predominant language here. And they should consider themselves as American and try as hard as possible to be American here.

So, here's a scenario: 2 ppl, both immigrants. One comes in on a student visa from say Pakistan. His english isn't great, and he doesn't make much effort to improve it. He meets a 2nd-generation pakistani-american girl and they get married. He gets a dead-end job in a supermarket or something (yeah, am being stereotypical here, is just an example) and doesn't make any effort to integrate - his wife is pakistani, his neighbours are pakistani, english is rarely used outside of work. The second guy comes across the border illegally from Mexico. He works his ass off pulling down down 2 jobs and goes to night classes to improve his english and to study for the citizenship test. I don't want to get into the whole immigration debate here, but going by your Teddy Roosevelt quote, which one is more deserving to be a citizen?

[quote="Miles1"]

Dennis324 wrote:

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Well, I'm not against someone retaining one's own language, but they ought to try as hard as they can to learn English....the predominant language here. And they should consider themselves as American and try as hard as possible to be American here.

So, here's a scenario: 2 ppl, both immigrants. One comes in on a student visa from say Pakistan. His english isn't great, and he doesn't make much effort to improve it. He meets a 2nd-generation pakistani-american girl and they get married. He gets a dead-end job in a supermarket or something (yeah, am being stereotypical here, is just an example) and doesn't make any effort to integrate - his wife is pakistani, his neighbours are pakistani, english is rarely used outside of work. The second guy comes across the border illegally from Mexico. He works his ass off pulling down down 2 jobs and goes to night classes to improve his english and to study for the citizenship test. I don't want to get into the whole immigration debate here, but going by your Teddy Roosevelt quote, which one is more deserving to be a citizen?

Traditionally it takes an average of 2 1/2 generations for an immigrant family to fully integrate into US society. Generally it takes longer for immigrants here than it does in other countries. Much of that has to do with the nuances of tUSA's version of English. Another is that many get lost in immigrant sections and never feel the need to integrate immediately. In most cases, it is children that feel the strongest urge to try and fit in with society.

Bottom line; I got less of a problem with someone learning the language than I do with someone not feeling "American" after gaining citizenship.

Miles1 wrote:
Man, don't get me started on this one. The amount of times I've heard "Oh, you're Irish? My great-great-great grandfather came over from Ireland, that makes me Irish too!"... Coming over here, wearing the arran sweaters and the tweed caps, trying to out-Irish the Irish - we just call them "plastic paddies" and feel no shame in separating them from their tourist dollars in exchange for some green-colored crap and a stupid leprechaun hat.

Seriously though, America is pretty much the only country that does this - Australia has as much of a history of immigration as the US does in its founding years (bunch of crims and convicts....:p), but you never hear an Aussie say they're "Irish-Australian" or "Japanese-Australian", they're just "Australian". I get the "be proud of where your family comes from" bit, but some people take it way too far. Is something to do with the fact that there's not a lot of history in America yet, so ppl feel the need to acquire some from someone else. Heard a great saying a few weeks ago, "the difference between an irishman and an american is an irishman thinks 100 miles is a long way, and an american thinks 100 years is a long time".

Yeah, I'm sure we can be an embarrassing lot. Sort of like the guy who finds himself in the precarious predicament of being the object of a schoolgirl crush by and ugly chick. Lol! But whaddaya gonna do?

Miles1 wrote:
So, here's a scenario: 2 ppl, both immigrants. One comes in on a student visa from say Pakistan. His english isn't great, and he doesn't make much effort to improve it. He meets a 2nd-generation pakistani-american girl and they get married. He gets a dead-end job in a supermarket or something (yeah, am being stereotypical here, is just an example) and doesn't make any effort to integrate - his wife is pakistani, his neighbours are pakistani, english is rarely used outside of work. The second guy comes across the border illegally from Mexico. He works his ass off pulling down down 2 jobs and goes to night classes to improve his english and to study for the citizenship test. I don't want to get into the whole immigration debate here, but going by your Teddy Roosevelt quote, which one is more deserving to be a citizen?

Teddy would probably say the 2nd guy. Its a tough question but the scenario you painted tells me the 2nd guy wants to be here because he loves this country more than the first.

I think our immigration laws probably need to be revised some so that its not like chewing on tin foil for someone to get in here. I'm reminded of the tv show "No Reserations" with chef anthony bourdain. There's a nice NYC restaurant he goes to often, a place he used to work, and its now run by a Mexican chef. That guy speaks the language well and works hard. Turns out he snuck across the border using the coyotes, came over here, worked his butt off, learned the language well, and worked to get his citizenship.

IMO, he likely had no criminal background and thus should never had needed to go through all this trouble. The city is much better off now that he's here.