Unstable Man Plots To Bring Guns To Schools

Unstable Man Plots To Bring Guns To Schools
The Onion

FAIRFAX, VA—According to sources, local man Wayne LaPierre, an individual with a long history of unstable and dangerous behavior, revealed a detailed plot this week to bring semiautomatic weapons into schools. The disturbed man has reportedly been carefully planning this plot for months and has published numerous ranting posts to his website in which he lays out, in explicit detail, his desire to bring numerous guns into school hallways and classrooms. While the crazed individual has, as of press time, not yet acted on his plan, sources confirmed he has every intention of doing so in the near future and will stop at nothing to see his plot fulfilled. Additional reports have suggested that the unstable man may have also been helped in his planning by a number of accomplices in the United States Congress.

Yes, because some people are so comfortable and insulated that they can draw conclusions about people they know nothing about and topics they know even less about.

I guess these teachers are crazy.

I would love for someone.........anyone to give me a law or a regulation that would actually curb and stop things like Newtown or Aurora or VT or any of them.

But yeah, thanks for spreading the idea that game preserves are a much better idea. That idea has really shown to work wonders. Let's do something really crazy......let's keep doing more of the same thing and expect a different result.

Was that from the onion, or NYT?

Pun wrote:Was that from the onion, or NYT?

Onion. Humor section.

Marconius wrote:
Onion. Humor section.

the onion has a serious section now?

Miles1 wrote:

Marconius wrote:
Onion. Humor section.

the onion has a serious section now?

Our humor section.
Not the Onion's.

Marconius wrote:Yes, because some people are so comfortable and insulated that they can draw conclusions about people they know nothing about and topics they know even less about.

I guess these teachers are crazy.

What is the context behind those photos?

Neither seems to be carrying their firearms in a very safe manner (ie a kid could easily pull that guys gun).

They are teachers in Israeli schools and he is carrying a typical paddle style holster. Same you see many LEO's carry. In that regard, if it seems a child could pull it easily, wouldn't a criminal??? Never happens. Pistols are harder to draw than you might think.

Fact is many think teachers carrying guns into class is a strange idea so they don't even think about it rationally. They just ridicule it. If they stopped to think, did just a modicum of research, they would learn that it is a common practice in some places. Utah is one. Texas and Oklahoma are most likely gonna follow. The misplaced idea of "they wild west" are as unfounded as the ideas of just how wild the west really was.

Marconius wrote:They are teachers in Israeli schools and he is carrying a typical paddle style holster. Same you see many LEO's carry. In that regard, if it seems a child could pull it easily, wouldn't a criminal??? Never happens. Pistols are harder to draw than you might think.

Fact is many think teachers carrying guns into class is a strange idea so they don't even think about it rationally. They just ridicule it. If they stopped to think, did just a modicum of research, they would learn that it is a common practice in some places. Utah is one. Texas and Oklahoma are most likely gonna follow. The misplaced idea of "they wild west" are as unfounded as the ideas of just how wild the west really was.

The holsters that I've seen LEO's use in schools (not that I am in any way an authority on the subject) had a strap over the butt of the gun that had to be removed before the gun could be drawn (something the LEO could quickly do, but would prevent a criminal/student from coming up behind and pulling it). If that guy had one, I couldn't see it. That said, I have no experience drawing a gun from a holster, so I have no idea how difficult it would otherwise be.

I like to think that I consider the idea of guns in the classroom somewhat rationally (perhaps I'm mistaken). Most teachers are neither trained or paid to provide armed security/violent crisis intervention. I see arming teachers as a huge danger both to the teacher and the students. In an active shooter scenario, what are the chances of a teacher shooting a student or staff member by accident (either confusing them with the perp or by missing their target)? What are the chances of police confusing an armed teacher with the perp? What are the chances of the teacher confusing the LEO as a possible perp (ie guy with gun enters classroom, how long does a minimally trained teacher have to registered if he is a good or bad guy, factor in nerves)? The kind of training necessary to get teachers to a reasonable level of competency would require time and money that, if either were available, could be put to better purposes.

Perhaps it makes since in Israel to have armed teachers. They are under constant threat of terrorist attack, and kidnappings/hostage situations are not uncommon. Also worth note is that almost every Israeli has prior military training and likely battle experience. They are trained in how to use guns and how to react in a violent situation. Also, I would presume it is easy to distinguish the perps from the students in most situations. None of that is true for most American school teachers. The risk calculation there might make armed teachers favorable, but I fail to see how that can hold true in the US.

Why arm teachers? Why not just have more uniformed security? In my hogh school we always had a deputy assigned to the school. Mr sullivan. Never had a problem with anyone pulling that old mans piece. No double meaning implied

Bryant wrote:

Marconius wrote:They are teachers in Israeli schools and he is carrying a typical paddle style holster. Same you see many LEO's carry. In that regard, if it seems a child could pull it easily, wouldn't a criminal??? Never happens. Pistols are harder to draw than you might think.

Fact is many think teachers carrying guns into class is a strange idea so they don't even think about it rationally. They just ridicule it. If they stopped to think, did just a modicum of research, they would learn that it is a common practice in some places. Utah is one. Texas and Oklahoma are most likely gonna follow. The misplaced idea of "they wild west" are as unfounded as the ideas of just how wild the west really was.

The holsters that I've seen LEO's use in schools (not that I am in any way an authority on the subject) had a strap over the butt of the gun that had to be removed before the gun could be drawn (something the LEO could quickly do, but would prevent a criminal/student from coming up behind and pulling it). If that guy had one, I couldn't see it. That said, I have no experience drawing a gun from a holster, so I have no idea how difficult it would otherwise be.

I like to think that I consider the idea of guns in the classroom somewhat rationally (perhaps I'm mistaken). Most teachers are neither trained or paid to provide armed security/violent crisis intervention. I see arming teachers as a huge danger both to the teacher and the students. In an active shooter scenario, what are the chances of a teacher shooting a student or staff member by accident (either confusing them with the perp or by missing their target)? What are the chances of police confusing an armed teacher with the perp? What are the chances of the teacher confusing the LEO as a possible perp (ie guy with gun enters classroom, how long does a minimally trained teacher have to registered if he is a good or bad guy, factor in nerves)? The kind of training necessary to get teachers to a reasonable level of competency would require time and money that, if either were available, could be put to better purposes.

Perhaps it makes since in Israel to have armed teachers. They are under constant threat of terrorist attack, and kidnappings/hostage situations are not uncommon. Also worth note is that almost every Israeli has prior military training and likely battle experience. They are trained in how to use guns and how to react in a violent situation. Also, I would presume it is easy to distinguish the perps from the students in most situations. None of that is true for most American school teachers. The risk calculation there might make armed teachers favorable, but I fail to see how that can hold true in the US.

Eh, some LEO's have a requirement for an overstrap on the holster. Not all of them do. New holsters are made to keep pressure on the weapon to keep it held into place. It is easy to draw from the proper position, but once you change the angle of the pull (as in someone who is not wearing the holster trying to pull the pistol), it isn't as easy(though it can still be done fairly easy, just not as fast...about the same as the strap).

Nope, most teachers are not trained. That is why nobody ever said anything about making it manditory. There are some very highly trained teachers out there. Some that shoot firearms for pleasure after work. Some that do it competitively. Many already carry concealed weapons while not at work. It is these teachers who should be able to excersise their rights even while at work. States, like Utah, can set guidelines and rules on training requirements and recertification.

The chance of a teacher accidentally shooting a child while defending his/her class is much, much smaller than the certainty that the child would be shot without the armed teacher there. You have "a chance" of stopping the attacker vs "no chance" of stopping the attacker. Which would you prefer for your child??? I would have trusted many of my sons teachers with this(not all however). Many of them (women and men) have handled weapons all their life and hunt and shoot reguarly. I promise you that they handle a weapon better than the typical mass shooter would. As I've said before, the mind of the mass shooter is not the same as the mind of most other criminals. They are not hardened. They are, at heart, pussies and will back off from confrontation if they see just as great of a threat to them as they pose to others. We see this in pretty much every situation involving mass shooters. Of course there is the exception, like Charles Joseph Whitman, but these guys will never be stopped. Ban firearms and you end up with Timothy McVeigh and Andrew Kehoe.

Either way, utilizing assets already in place is much more fiscally responsible than creating an asset.

Since we have had more attacks on schools in the past 10 years then Israel has.....it would seem that we have an even bigger need than they do.

Pun wrote:Why arm teachers? Why not just have more uniformed security? In my hogh school we always had a deputy assigned to the school. Mr sullivan. Never had a problem with anyone pulling that old mans piece. No double meaning implied

I woulda hated to see armed guards at my old schools. Funny thing is, I had loaded guns with me, at school, almost every day. Back then, it was common to see shotguns and rifles hanging on the back window gun rack.

Remember these:


Hell, I carried a knife into school every day. I carry a knife with me everywhere even to this day. I feel naked without my knife.

Marconius wrote:

Bryant wrote:

Marconius wrote:They are teachers in Israeli schools and he is carrying a typical paddle style holster. Same you see many LEO's carry. In that regard, if it seems a child could pull it easily, wouldn't a criminal??? Never happens. Pistols are harder to draw than you might think.

Fact is many think teachers carrying guns into class is a strange idea so they don't even think about it rationally. They just ridicule it. If they stopped to think, did just a modicum of research, they would learn that it is a common practice in some places. Utah is one. Texas and Oklahoma are most likely gonna follow. The misplaced idea of "they wild west" are as unfounded as the ideas of just how wild the west really was.

The holsters that I've seen LEO's use in schools (not that I am in any way an authority on the subject) had a strap over the butt of the gun that had to be removed before the gun could be drawn (something the LEO could quickly do, but would prevent a criminal/student from coming up behind and pulling it). If that guy had one, I couldn't see it. That said, I have no experience drawing a gun from a holster, so I have no idea how difficult it would otherwise be.

I like to think that I consider the idea of guns in the classroom somewhat rationally (perhaps I'm mistaken). Most teachers are neither trained or paid to provide armed security/violent crisis intervention. I see arming teachers as a huge danger both to the teacher and the students. In an active shooter scenario, what are the chances of a teacher shooting a student or staff member by accident (either confusing them with the perp or by missing their target)? What are the chances of police confusing an armed teacher with the perp? What are the chances of the teacher confusing the LEO as a possible perp (ie guy with gun enters classroom, how long does a minimally trained teacher have to registered if he is a good or bad guy, factor in nerves)? The kind of training necessary to get teachers to a reasonable level of competency would require time and money that, if either were available, could be put to better purposes.

Perhaps it makes since in Israel to have armed teachers. They are under constant threat of terrorist attack, and kidnappings/hostage situations are not uncommon. Also worth note is that almost every Israeli has prior military training and likely battle experience. They are trained in how to use guns and how to react in a violent situation. Also, I would presume it is easy to distinguish the perps from the students in most situations. None of that is true for most American school teachers. The risk calculation there might make armed teachers favorable, but I fail to see how that can hold true in the US.

Eh, some LEO's have a requirement for an overstrap on the holster. Not all of them do. New holsters are made to keep pressure on the weapon to keep it held into place. It is easy to draw from the proper position, but once you change the angle of the pull (as in someone who is not wearing the holster trying to pull the pistol), it isn't as easy(though it can still be done fairly easy, just not as fast...about the same as the strap).

Nope, most teachers are not trained. That is why nobody ever said anything about making it manditory. There are some very highly trained teachers out there. Some that shoot firearms for pleasure after work. Some that do it competitively. Many already carry concealed weapons while not at work. It is these teachers who should be able to excersise their rights even while at work. States, like Utah, can set guidelines and rules on training requirements and recertification.

The chance of a teacher accidentally shooting a child while defending his/her class is much, much smaller than the certainty that the child would be shot without the armed teacher there. You have "a chance" of stopping the attacker vs "no chance" of stopping the attacker. Which would you prefer for your child??? I would have trusted many of my sons teachers with this(not all however). Many of them (women and men) have handled weapons all their life and hunt and shoot reguarly. I promise you that they handle a weapon better than the typical mass shooter would. As I've said before, the mind of the mass shooter is not the same as the mind of most other criminals. They are not hardened. They are, at heart, pussies and will back off from confrontation if they see just as great of a threat to them as they pose to others. We see this in pretty much every situation involving mass shooters. Of course there is the exception, like Charles Joseph Whitman, but these guys will never be stopped. Ban firearms and you end up with Timothy McVeigh and Andrew Kehoe.

Either way, utilizing assets already in place is much more fiscally responsible than creating an asset.

Since we have had more attacks on schools in the past 10 years then Israel has.....it would seem that we have an even bigger need than they do.

Didn't know about the directionality of the holsters, thats good info!

My point with the teachers is that few if any are trained to use a firearm in an emergency situation. They might be a great shot at the range or when staring down a deer, but happens when the teachers life is in danger? What happens when the situation isn't clear? What happens when panic sets in? The training most police and military folks (as I'm sure you would appreciate considering your background) isn't the same as that of an average hunter or recreational shooter. People jump and mistakes happen in the heat of the moment; and thats a large part of what I'm afraid of.

With your military background and training you might be able to conduct yourself in such a situation. I'm a decent shot in controlled environments, however I, like most others, have no experience in that kind of life-or-death situation. Give me a gun and put me in that situation and I'd likely be a danger to those around me.

Marconius wrote:

Pun wrote:Why arm teachers? Why not just have more uniformed security? In my hogh school we always had a deputy assigned to the school. Mr sullivan. Never had a problem with anyone pulling that old mans piece. No double meaning implied

I woulda hated to see armed guards at my old schools. Funny thing is, I had loaded guns with me, at school, almost every day. Back then, it was common to see shotguns and rifles hanging on the back window gun rack.

Remember these:


Hell, I carried a knife into school every day. I carry a knife with me everywhere even to this day. I feel naked without my knife.

When I was in high school, if you got caught with a gun on campus (including hanging in the rear window of your truck), you'd go to jail. That said, during deer season lots of people had a rifle concealed behind the seat. Admin had to have known, but let things lie. Likewise, we weren't allowed to carry a knife, however if you were discrete (ie not flashing it around or being otherwise dangerous) no one cared (heck, the ag kids had to have one for much of what they did).