SCOTUS decision

So does the SCOTUS decision on DOMA now effectively mean gay marriage must be the law of the land in all 50 states? The ruling was supposed to be confined to DOMA and prop 8, but since it was found unconstitutional for the fed government, wont the same apply now to all state govs?

It should, but equally unConstitutional would be the forcing of private businesses(read churches and other places that perform marriage ceremonies) to marry same sex couples. If you wanna do it, cool. If you don't wanna do it, cool too. Marriages performed by government officials must recognize everyone or no one.

Marconius wrote:It should, but equally unConstitutional would be the forcing of private businesses(read churches and other places that perform marriage ceremonies) to marry same sex couples. If you wanna do it, cool. If you don't wanna do it, cool too. Marriages performed by government officials must recognize everyone or no one.

How would ruling it unconstitutional force any church to marry homosexuals? The only related scenario I could think of would be County Clerks.

1st they'll go after the military.  Chaplains will soon be forced to marry gays despite what the Bible says about homosexuality.  After this, someone, somewhere will try to get a S. Baptist church, or some other bible believing church to marry them.  When they are refused, you can bet the ACLU and gay groups will sue.

These hateful groups attack Christian conservative people relentlessly. Look at the Boy Scouts ( a private organization).

“We did it!” declared ACLU President Anthony D. Romero in a fundraising email sent out within an hour of the announcement of the Supreme Court decisions on same-sex marriage Wednesday.

The email featured a photograph of ACLU client Edie Windsor being hugged by her partner, the late Thea Spyer. Beneath the picture, the ACLU posted a “Donate Now” button, with the following copy: “The ACLU won the fight to overturn DOMA at the Supreme Court. Now we turn to the states to win the freedom to marry for all Americans.”

Targeting the states

“Donate now to support the ACLU’s work and help spearhead challenges to state marriage bans that still prevent millions of loving same-sex couples from getting married,” Romero, the first openly gay president of the ACLU, wrote in the ACLU fundraising email.

“Thanks to Edie’s victory today, marriages between same-sex couples will now be recognized under federal law,” the ACLU continued. “But state marriage bans are still preventing millions of loving same-sex couples from getting married.”

Romero announced that the ACLU’s “big, multi-year plan” to eliminate state same-sex marriage bans will begin Thursday with a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal.

“Our goal is simple, win the freedom to marry for same-sex couples all across America,” Romero’s email explained, signaling that the next initiative of the ACLU will be to challenge state law in states where same-sex civil unions are not yet legal.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/aclu-vows-to-bring-marriage-battle-to-states/#Z3bs5rd0W5Jd1klS.99

See what I mean? They are relentless.

Was talking more about civil, not private

Bryant wrote:

Marconius wrote:It should, but equally unConstitutional would be the forcing of private businesses(read churches and other places that perform marriage ceremonies) to marry same sex couples. If you wanna do it, cool. If you don't wanna do it, cool too. Marriages performed by government officials must recognize everyone or no one.

How would ruling it unconstitutional force any church to marry homosexuals?  The only related scenario I could think of would be County Clerks.  

It shouldn't, but we have seen unintended consequences other issues before. Besides, a few months ago there was a major player in gay rights who was quoted in saying this victory would be the first step in abolishing many churches that she claimed were "oppressive".

Just keep an eye out.

Dennis324 wrote:1st they'll go after the military.  Chaplains will soon be forced to marry gays despite what the Bible says about homosexuality.  After this, someone, somewhere will try to get a S. Baptist church, or some other bible believing church to marry them.  When they are refused, you can bet the ACLU and gay groups will sue.

These hateful groups attack Christian conservative people relentlessly.  Look at the Boy Scouts ( a private organization).  

To Bryant:

What Dennis says here is true. This is how we can see some trying to force churches into things. The whole BS with birth control and insurance is one thing..........this is totally different and really does go against church doctrine.

Dennis324 wrote:“We did it!” declared ACLU President Anthony D. Romero in a fundraising email sent out within an hour of the announcement of the Supreme Court decisions on same-sex marriage Wednesday.

The email featured a photograph of ACLU client Edie Windsor being hugged by her partner, the late Thea Spyer.  Beneath the picture, the ACLU posted a “Donate Now” button, with the following copy: “The ACLU won the fight to overturn DOMA at the Supreme Court. Now we turn to the states to win the freedom to marry for all Americans.”

Targeting the states

“Donate now to support the ACLU’s work and help spearhead challenges to state marriage bans that still prevent millions of loving same-sex couples from getting married,” Romero, the first openly gay president of the ACLU, wrote in the ACLU fundraising email.

“Thanks to Edie’s victory today, marriages between same-sex couples will now be recognized under federal law,” the ACLU continued. “But state marriage bans are still preventing millions of loving same-sex couples from getting married.”

Romero announced that the ACLU’s “big, multi-year plan” to eliminate state same-sex marriage bans will begin Thursday with a full-page ad in the Wall Street Journal.

“Our goal is simple, win the freedom to marry for same-sex couples all across America,” Romero’s email explained, signaling that the next initiative of the ACLU will be to challenge state law in states where same-sex civil unions are not yet legal.

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2013/06/aclu-vows-to-bring-marriage-battle-to-states/#Z3bs5rd0W5Jd1klS.99

See what I mean?  They are relentless.

I might just send them some money. Look, your opposition, like that of almost all others, is rooted in your religious convictions. While you are free to hold those beliefs, you and others like you have absolutely no right to use the legislature to force your religious laws on the rest of us.

Did I do that??? 

The ACLU plan to push for gay marriage in all states, mine included despite the wishes of the people here...and I'm forcing my views on them???

California voted to ban gay marriage and yet the ACLU and gay activists were successful in getting both a homosexual judge and the activist judges on SCOTUS to completely disregard wishes of the people.  And we're forcing our views on them???

What the left does all the time.

Yep, but Bryant is a good guy.  We disagree sometimes, but I respect the heck out of him. 

And of course its all about religion, because all practical objects are ignored, and it cant have anything to do with thousands of years culture, that near-universally doesnt recognize same-sex marriage in the face of all nature.

There are people and groups who have carried out a plan to ....normalize and desensitize the public over their revulsion of homosexuality.  I remember a handful of years ago, ABC cancelled Ellen Degeneres' tv show.  A big thing was made over this and the left were outraged.

Since then, slowly at first, we had the first incident of women kissing on network tv.  That was a big deal.  Then more and more things aired which presented the gay lifestyle as ...normal and healthy.  The Christian right's feelings were ignored.

Family Guy really pushed the envelope.  There were some "teen tv series" that pushed this agenda as well.

Its been a well coordinated effort to push this agenda on the public.  The Boy Scouts were sued until they finally caved.  The gay agenda folks knew that older people (like myself) would never accept this socially left lifestyle being normalized so they went after young audiences.  College and high school aged people (who grow up and become movers and shakers in this world) were targeted. 

THIS, more than anything, is why people say things are different today than they were.  These people now vote.  And politicians fear the voter more than anything. 

Add to this mixture the hiring of far left radical professors in colleges, the election of radicals like Obama and the appointment of radical judges, and you get what we have today.

The problem is that I believe that God is a 'just' god and because of this....I tremble for our country.  I do believe that God's judgment will fall upon us.  I think we are seeing signs of it even now.

Well its worked cuz im extremely indifferent nowadays. Not much point in even making valid objections anymore. Then agn thats the way i feel about the country as a whole. Just sad to watch. Sad that history tells us it will have to get much much worse for it to ever get better again, if ever it does. America is still rather a one-off in history, and theres no guaranteeing lightning will strike twice.

Rather like the world war g bit miles posted on fb. Spoofing world war z, it asserts conservatives have this irrational fear of a gay outbreak totally taking over the world, completely undermining all legitimate concerns.

I can respect that pov.  I just think that regardless of whether its Constitutional or not, if we continue to allow the media to influence young minds and hearts, our nation will change for the worse in time.  Because these people grow up and some go on to lead our nation.  If the agenda turns from homosexuality to say something else like...euthanasia we old folks are in a world of hurt.  And it has been discussed in the past.
 
Furthermore, I believe in the concept of sin.  And I also believe that God exists and His will trumps man's laws.  If God warns that debauchery, promiscuity and yes...even homosexuality is wrong, and he has shown that a nation who no longer loves and follows His principles will be judged and punished, then we in American are in danger.  Because we are doing many of the things that the Roman Empire did.  Also the great cities of Canaan.  And even Israel itself, which was overthrown a number of times and its citizens were enslaved by evil masters.
 
That weirds out unbelievers, but just because they don't believe doesn't mean they aren't in danger as well.  Unbelief is no protection.  I'd hate for our country to fall simply because we were too dumb or too willfully ignorant to amend our constitution to be more in line with God's ways.  And we could do this without becoming a theocracy.

Marconius wrote:

Dennis324 wrote:1st they'll go after the military.  Chaplains will soon be forced to marry gays despite what the Bible says about homosexuality.  After this, someone, somewhere will try to get a S. Baptist church, or some other bible believing church to marry them.  When they are refused, you can bet the ACLU and gay groups will sue.

These hateful groups attack Christian conservative people relentlessly.  Look at the Boy Scouts ( a private organization).  

To Bryant:

What Dennis says here is true. This is how we can see some trying to force churches into things. The whole BS with birth control and insurance is one thing..........this is totally different and really does go against church doctrine.

If someone tries to legally compel the a church to marry a homosexual couple, I'll side with you and Dennis against it. That would be wrong.

I think using social pressure to bring about change, as was the case with the Boy Scouts, is fair game. No one forced them to change their policies, rather they decided they would rather change their policies to avoid the social stigma that banning homosexuals was creating. They could just as well have said to hell with it and lived with the social consequences.

Dennis324 wrote:Did I do that??? 

The ACLU plan to push for gay marriage in all states, mine included despite the wishes of the people here...and I'm forcing my views on them???

California voted to ban gay marriage and yet the ACLU and gay activists were successful in getting both a homosexual judge and the activist judges on SCOTUS to completely disregard wishes of the people.  And we're forcing our views on them???

Who in California votes for Prop 8? Who payed for Prop 8? Who defended Prop 8 after the State's Republican governor elected not to appeal the lower court ruling? Prop 8 was supported almost entirely by conservative Protestants and Catholics (there were some more progressive Protestant groups that opposed Prop 8, but not many), payed for largely by the LDS Church out of Utah, and was defended in court by religious groups after the State bailed. Yes on G was driven from the start by Christians trying to force their theology on the rest of Californians. In every other state you see the same thing, Christians gaining up to oppress others for having the audacity to live independent of their theology.

As for the 'wishes of the people,' look up the meaning of rights.

It really funny how these Christian groups cry about being oppressed when they're told they can no longer oppress others! You'd think they were trying to ban heterosexual marriage!

Dennis324 wrote:Yep, but Bryant is a good guy.  We disagree sometimes, but I respect the heck out of him. 

I'm sorry if I come off rough on these topics, I do hold you in high regard. Someday were ganna have to grab a beer.

Bryant wrote:

Marconius wrote:

Dennis324 wrote:1st they'll go after the military.  Chaplains will soon be forced to marry gays despite what the Bible says about homosexuality.  After this, someone, somewhere will try to get a S. Baptist church, or some other bible believing church to marry them.  When they are refused, you can bet the ACLU and gay groups will sue.

These hateful groups attack Christian conservative people relentlessly.  Look at the Boy Scouts ( a private organization).  

To Bryant:

What Dennis says here is true. This is how we can see some trying to force churches into things. The whole BS with birth control and insurance is one thing..........this is totally different and really does go against church doctrine.

If someone tries to legally compel the a church to marry a homosexual couple, I'll side with you and Dennis against it.  That would be wrong.  

I think using social pressure to bring about change, as was the case with the Boy Scouts, is fair game.  No one forced them to change their policies, rather they decided they would rather change their policies to avoid the social stigma that banning homosexuals was creating.  They could just as well have said to hell with it and lived with the social consequences.

I agree with you on the Boy Scouts.

Bryant wrote:

Dennis324 wrote:Did I do that??? 

The ACLU plan to push for gay marriage in all states, mine included despite the wishes of the people here...and I'm forcing my views on them???

California voted to ban gay marriage and yet the ACLU and gay activists were successful in getting both a homosexual judge and the activist judges on SCOTUS to completely disregard wishes of the people.  And we're forcing our views on them???

Who in California votes for Prop 8?  Who payed for Prop 8?  Who defended Prop 8 after the State's Republican governor elected not to appeal the lower court ruling?  Prop 8 was supported almost entirely by conservative Protestants and Catholics (there were some more progressive Protestant groups that opposed Prop 8, but not many), payed for largely by the LDS Church out of Utah, and was defended in court by religious groups after the State bailed.  Yes on G was driven from the start by Christians trying to force their theology on the rest of Californians.  In every other state you see the same thing, Christians gaining up to oppress others for having the audacity to live independent of their theology.

 I don't really see 'voting' as trying to oppress anyone though.  If that's so, then you guys are oppressing me by outvoting us and electing Obama.

Dennis324 wrote:

Bryant wrote:

Dennis324 wrote:Did I do that??? 

The ACLU plan to push for gay marriage in all states, mine included despite the wishes of the people here...and I'm forcing my views on them???

California voted to ban gay marriage and yet the ACLU and gay activists were successful in getting both a homosexual judge and the activist judges on SCOTUS to completely disregard wishes of the people.  And we're forcing our views on them???

Who in California votes for Prop 8?  Who payed for Prop 8?  Who defended Prop 8 after the State's Republican governor elected not to appeal the lower court ruling?  Prop 8 was supported almost entirely by conservative Protestants and Catholics (there were some more progressive Protestant groups that opposed Prop 8, but not many), payed for largely by the LDS Church out of Utah, and was defended in court by religious groups after the State bailed.  Yes on G was driven from the start by Christians trying to force their theology on the rest of Californians.  In every other state you see the same thing, Christians gaining up to oppress others for having the audacity to live independent of their theology.

 I don't really see 'voting' as trying to oppress anyone though.  If that's so, then you guys are oppressing me by outvoting us and electing Obama.

If you vote to strip a group of equal treatment under law, then yes, you are voting to oppress someone.

Like you with polygamists?