In Conservative California, Confusion And Contempt For Health Law

In Conservative California, Confusion And Contempt For Health Law
by Sarah Varney
NPR News

To reach Oakhurst, Calif., drive away from the green fields of the Central Valley, past miles of pistachio trees showing their spring buds and up toward the snow-topped peaks of the Sierra Nevada.

Here, just a few miles from the entrance to Yosemite National Park, is the Sweetwater Steakhouse, a local watering hole where no one is shy about their opinions of President Obama's signature initiative.

"Obamacare is absolutely horrible, horrible, horrible," Joe Stern, owner of a local water-conditioning company, says as he sips a glass of pinot noir. "It should be struck down immediately."

By 5 o'clock on most weekday evenings, the Sweetwater bar is hopping, and locals, like Stern, stop by to josh and jest. Stern is a registered Republican. He's 66 years old and covered by Medicare, a program Stern says he is thankful for. Before he qualified for the federal program, Stern, who is single, used to pay $670 a month for insurance — more than $8,000 a year.

"I thought it was pretty brutal," he says, "but I was still against Obamacare by far."

Oakhurst caps the eastern end of Madera County, a largely conservative and agricultural region where unemployment runs stubbornly high, at 14.7 percent, and 32 percent of people have no health insurance.

By and large, conservative voters in the county despise the federal health law's mandate that all Americans have health coverage, and many suspect the health insurance system isn't really all that broken.

Reflecting a common sentiment, Stern says, "I don't know of anyone that was left on the street to bleed to death. I don't know anyone that is really left out."

It's not that Stern doesn't know people who don't have insurance. He cheerfully introduces his friend, Mary Westover, who is sitting next to him at the bar. Westover is a registered Republican and a self-employed artist and businesswoman who says she can't afford health insurance. She's been uninsured for 17 years — she hasn't had a pap smear in all that time — and is among the 13 percent of Americans who are uninsured and opposed to the health law.

Westover, too, is against the individual mandate, but wasn't aware the federal government would give subsidies to people like her — whose incomes are below 400 percent of the federal poverty level — to buy a policy. That's once that part of the law kicks in, in 2014.

"If it were subsidized, if it were made, you know, manageable, I would want that," she says, adding that she doesn't know how people who can afford it "can sit there and say that we shouldn't have that — because there are a lot more of us, than them."

Although many here in Madera County say they want the U.S. Supreme Court to throw the federal law — and all of its big government mandates — out, they are struggling to reconcile their political ideologies with the basic need for health insurance and protection from financial calamity.

Paul Ruffino, the manager of Chateau du Sureau, a five-star, luxury inn overlooking the mountains of Yosemite, is uninsured for the first time in his life.

"It's probably when I need it the most," he says, sitting in the inn's salon, with its fresco-painted ceilings and roaring fire.

Ruffino says the health insurance policies he's looked at are expensive and won't cover his pre-existing conditions. Still, he says it was his decision to leave a previous job in Southern California that came with insurance and move to Oakhurst. As a Libertarian (the GOP is too liberal, he says), he doesn't think he should have help in getting insurance: "Do I make the government responsible for my choices? I made the choice. I knew beforehand."

Ruffino seems torn between his unsparing self-reliance and a sense that the insurance industry is unfair. He thinks insurance companies should not be allowed to pick out only the healthy and leave guys like him behind. He says there is a role for government in setting some of the rules, but he's uncertain just how far he wants to go.

"Does there come a time when government has to get involved and at what levels? But when you are distrustful of the system in whole it makes it difficult," he says. "I go back and forth. I ping-pong on this issue all the time."

It doesn't surprise Oakhurst insurance agent Doug Macaulay that many people are torn.

Macaulay, who is also Republican, says people get mad at the insurance companies, but they don't see "Obamacare," as they derisively call it, as the answer: "You're complaining over here that you don't have health insurance and you can't buy it. And over here [the government is] trying to provide you with it but that's the worst thing ever. So there seems to be a disconnect in the thinking there."

I grew up about twenty or so minutes south of Oakhurst in south-eastern Madera County. The town suffers from severe educational shortcomings and is largely (although by no means entirely) intellectually lazy individuals who get their opinions from Rush Limbaugh (he's very popular in the Central Valley and neighboring mountains), Ray Appleton (local Rush Limbaugh wannabe), and Glenn Beck. Of course, this is also the place that has a disturbingly high KKK and Neo-Nazi population (the largest klan rally in CA history was held in Coursegold, about 10 min west of Oakhurst and there is a large Nazi compound somewhere north of Oakhurst). That said, I elected to post this article because I think the subjects exhibit the same type of opposition to this bill (and really anything else Obama has done) as many other (by no means all!) conservative Americans - because they're told its bad. Intelligent discussion on the merits and potential repercussions of the bill (of the type we tend to have here) are constructive and allow for the sensible exchange of ideas based off evidence, however there are too many of these idiots (and I know both sides have them) who are unable to articulate a more intelligible argument that 'its horrible, horrible, horrible, thats why!' or 'because its socialism!'

Bryant wrote:

That said, I elected to post this article because I think the subjects exhibit the same type of opposition to this bill (and really anything else Obama has done) as many other (by no means all!) conservative Americans - because they're told its bad. Intelligent discussion on the merits and potential repercussions of the bill (of the type we tend to have here) are constructive and allow for the sensible exchange of ideas based off evidence, however there are too many of these idiots (and I know both sides have them) who are unable to articulate a more intelligible argument that 'its horrible, horrible, horrible, thats why!' or 'because its socialism!'

......and that is different from progressives in what way???

I myself have seen those in older renditions of this forum spout off many falsities they were spoonfed by the Dems. Difference is.....conservatives don't pout and quit groups when their "facts" are challenged.

Marconius wrote:

Bryant wrote:

That said, I elected to post this article because I think the subjects exhibit the same type of opposition to this bill (and really anything else Obama has done) as many other (by no means all!) conservative Americans - because they're told its bad. Intelligent discussion on the merits and potential repercussions of the bill (of the type we tend to have here) are constructive and allow for the sensible exchange of ideas based off evidence, however there are too many of these idiots (and I know both sides have them) who are unable to articulate a more intelligible argument that 'its horrible, horrible, horrible, thats why!' or 'because its socialism!'

......and that is different from progressives in what way???

I myself have seen those in older renditions of this forum spout off many falsities they were spoonfed by the Dems. Difference is.....conservatives don't pout and quit groups when their "facts" are challenged.

I do concede that both sides of the spectrum have these types of folks, I'm just not used to dealing with this type of progressive. As you perhaps understand but most don't, in my neck of California progressives are fairly rare. Most of the actual progressives around here tend to be highly educated individuals with research backgrounds who are usually fairly careful with their facts. From my experience one has to travel to either LA or the bay area to find the liberal intellectual equivalent of the Oakhurst conservative (I've actually had problems with some Greenpeace folks who appeared to be picketing outside an American Geophysical Union conference I presented at in San Francisco. Why they where there I know not, much of the research in support of AGW has been published by AGU members!).

Marconius wrote:
I myself have seen those in older renditions of this forum spout off many falsities they were spoonfed by the Dems. Difference is.....conservatives don't pout and quit groups when their "facts" are challenged.

Well, I've seen this in groups before as well, where someone is debating/arguing against someone who has no real clue of the topic in hand and is just regurgitating empty soundbites from their favourite TV/radio talking head(s). The difference in reaction tends to be that the progressive will get pissed off beating their head against a brick wall and eventually leave saying "screw this, there's no point in arguing any more" whereas the conservative will get pissed off and start attacking the other person as opposed to continuing the argument*. The same thing happens in debates between athiests and "believers", the believer will always claim that they won the argument, whereas what actually happens is the athiest gets fed up going around in circles and decides to do something more constructive with their time.

[* - am not saying youse guys in here do that, but I've seen it happen in other places]

Have you visited Sweetwater Steakhouse? Is the food good there?

In the interest of fairness, I listen to Rush too but am not a member of the KKK (though my grandfather was). We dont talk about that. Lol! But while I do enjoy Rush, I dont agree with everything he says. I'm more a fan of O'Reilly and Hannity. There again, I dont agree with everything they say either. But I know people who do and know the type. I find that many of my friends and neighbors rely on Rush to form their opinions. But they dont seek out other sources to find out what is really the issue. They only get 1 side of the story and its groups like ours that encourage me to check my sources.

AS for Obamacare....the main problem I have with it is the mandate that everyone has to buy healthcare or they'll be taxed. If they penalized us $500 per month for failure to get healthcare, thats still way cheaper than what the guy in the above scenario is paying. Way cheaper than what Blue Cross health insurance was costing me. Fact is, most of us cant aford insurance unless we get it through our employers. And most small business dont offer health insurance and couldnt afford to.

Actually in my personal situation, ObamaCare would help me because, since I'm unemployed and struggling, the State would have to give healthcare to me. But what would it cost my state? My state is poor as it is and we are desperately trying to attract business. Why should new business come here if its gonna cost them more to operate because of increased taxes (necessary to overcome the cost to the state of providing healthcare for people like myself)? Why shouldnt they move their operations offshore and hire foreign labor instead of Americans?

The mandate I think is the sticking point. There are actually some things about ObamaCare that seem fine. But making people buy it or getting fined is not fair. And it may even be unconstitutional. It'll be nteresting to see if the SCOTUS throws out part of Obamacare and keeps other parts.

I don't get why Congress even had to pass this thing. Something like 2500 pages and they didn't even read it!!!

Regulating insurance companies and capping costs of coverage plans would have been a much easier and cheaper way to go.

Keep the regulations dealing with existing conditions. Crack down on frivolous malpractice suits (which would allow for lowering medical costs thereby lowering coverage costs). Cap limits for plan costs. Regulate charges made by the medical institutions themselves (come on....$20 for aspirin). All things that would have been better.

Miles1 wrote:
The difference in reaction tends to be that the progressive will get pissed off beating their head against a brick wall and eventually leave saying "screw this, there's no point in arguing any more" whereas the conservative will get pissed off and start attacking the other person as opposed to continuing the argument*.

Really?!?!?

I came to almost the exact opposite conclusion. Of course it is always conservatives that call others things like racist, ignorant and heartless. Those Skinner girls never did attack anyone did they??? Neither did Mato. No progressive ever called me names after they misread my post (extracting only what they want out of it was more like it). Hell progressives call everything they hate conservative whether it is or isn't. The very term conservative is now at a point where it is almost derogatory and inflammatory and is quite commonly used as an insult (see the post on O3 in this very forum).

Doesn't really matter. Personal bias makes us see only what we want to see.

Bottom line is there ain't no cure for stupid and there is a lot of stupid to go around.

Marconius wrote:Crack down on frivolous malpractice suits (which would allow for lowering medical costs thereby lowering coverage costs).

How about we just shoot every 2nd lawyer and tell the rest they're on probation for 6 months, at which point we'll chop off the next 50% with the most frivolous lawsuits?

Dennis324 wrote:Have you visited Sweetwater Steakhouse? Is the food good there?

Nope, I've never been, although I've driven past it god knows how many times. As far as food goes, there are only four places that I'm aware of that are supposedly worth going to in that town. There is the Mexican place just east of town (although there are several Mexican joints in the Fresno area that are much better for the price), Todd's BBQ, The Pizza Factory (first location in the world is in Oakhurst, decent pizza but horrible price), and the Elderberry House (I've never been, my income more or less prohibits five star steak houses).