Supreme court decision on health care

opinions?

Well so far I just know it is fashioned after Romney care which was pretty similar. So it proves this election nothing more than politic as usual. If Romney wins he'll just replace it with that. Anyway since i'm being forced to buy my own health care then can I say goodbye to my current program? Seems expensive either way.

While I do not want to pay for the health problems of those who choose not to carry health insurance, I do not agree with a "mandate" from government forcing its citizenry to purchase a good. People say "well they make you buy car insurance". That is apples and oranges. I can always choose to not drive thereby nullifying the need for insurance. In this case, I am trapped.

I understand the thought process....those without insurance cost the tax payer anyway so we should give them a penalty. Sorry, but still not an excuse to force them and the precedent set is troubling indeed.

Of course SCOTUS (more precisely Roberts) did do us a favor in the way of classifying the mandate as a "tax". This means tHOR does not have to have a super-majority to overturn it and it doesn't need PONTUS support for it to be overturned.

Campaign promises are just that of course. GOP talking heads are claiming that they will do away with the Health Care Law, but we all know that it is now here to stay.

What we are gonna see now is massive insurance drop rates and skyrocketing health care costs. Why??? The tax is less than the cost of insurance in most cases. So people will drop their insurance and just pay the tax. I guess all those IRS agents added to the roster, by this law, will be the ones responsible for ensuring whether or not individuals have insurance.

Bottom line: This ended up being the largest tax increase on the middle class in US history and tUS Constitution is now officially dead......may it rest in peace

A full list of tax hikes contained in the Health Care Law (please not the Special Needs Children Tax......I thought we were supposed to be helping those in need).

http://www.atr.org/full-list-obamacare-tax-hikes-a6996#ixzz1zD4ml8rD

Marconius wrote: This means tHOR does not have to have a super-majority to overturn it and it doesn't need PONTUS support for it to be overturned.

Took me a minute to realise you meant the House of Representatives here - had an image in my head of the God of Thunder laying a smack-down on politicians who bring in laws he doesn't like :-P

Miles1 wrote:

Marconius wrote: This means tHOR does not have to have a super-majority to overturn it and it doesn't need PONTUS support for it to be overturned.

Took me a minute to realise you meant the House of Representatives here - had an image in my head of the God of Thunder laying a smack-down on politicians who bring in laws he doesn't like :-P

Dude, I actually chuckled out loud at that.

I thought some might not get what I was trying to say by that, but decided to do it anyway.

I know its easy for me to say this now, but (God's honest truth), up until 24 hours prior to the decision, I was among those who felt pretty sure that the SCOTUS would remove the mandate portion of the law.

But the night before the announcement, I truly began to feel that all the talking heads were getting overconfidant in their belief that this part would be removed. I started thinking, it would serve em right if the SCOTUS didnt actually do what they all said they would do.

And it happened.

Its kind of weird how it happened. The so-called conservative casting the deciding vote in favor of of the law AND rewriting it so that it would be a tax rather than a penalty as the Obama folks had maintained. But it happened after all and (here;s where I dislike the power of the SCOTUS), the only recourse now is to repeal the whole thing!

Personally this law may actually benefit me. And I'll take advantage of it if I can. But I do hate the idea that the law is screwing so many others even though it does help me.

Furthermore I'm not sure that I wiull be able to take full advantage of the law because of Alabama's position. I'm not sure of the details but I (think) several gulf states are still fighting it and its citizens may not benefit.

Thanks to Chief Justice Roberts’ turncoat decision to side with the liberals on the Supreme Court, Obamacare is not only constitutional, but it has become the biggest tax increase in history.

The Congressional Budget Office in March predicted Obamacare will cost $1.76 trillion over 10 years — double what it was sold as costing. The Heritage Foundation calculated that under Obamacare, the average cost of insurance for a full-time worker will go up by $5.51 an hour.

This is despite President Obama’s assurances that the health care act was in no way, nuh-uh, couldn’t-possibly-be-construed-as a tax increase:

“… For us to say that you’ve got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. What it’s saying is, is that we’re not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I’m not covering all the costs. … You can’t just make up that language and decide that that’s called a tax increase.”

But that’s precisely what Roberts and the liberal justices did. Roberts even admitted that under the Commerce Clause, the individual mandate is unconstitutional.

Then he turned around and decided that it was exactly what Obama claimed it was not and what the law itself never claimed to be — a tax increase, which is squarely within Congress’ authority to levy.

Like Darth Sidious, Roberts and the liberal justices have taken an unconstitutional law and “made it legal” through twisted logic.

This entire fraud that is “affordable” health care was perpetrated with the notion that health care would be provided to the uninsured for free. It’s anything but free, and more people are likely to find themselves uninsured as employers drop health plans altogether.

Those who can’t afford health insurance, who were supposed to be helped by the law, will be the likeliest group to be facing fines.

With the ruling today, the Supreme Court has not only endorsed this tragedy of a law, it has endorsed all the secret meetings, bribery, threats, “deeming” of laws to have passed that were never voted on, passing of a bill that hasn’t been written and other corruption that went into it.

Lay this all at the feet of those who voted for Obama. He promised to change America. Well, congratulations to the Left, America is surely different today.

Read more: http://godfatherpolitics.com/5908/obamacare-now-biggest-tax-increase-history/#ixzz1zWNO55Yg

Marconius wrote:
The Congressional Budget Office in March predicted Obamacare will cost $1.76 trillion over 10 years — double what it was sold as costing.

From factcheck.org:

"The costs of the insurance coverage provisions of the health care law include federal subsidies for lower-income individuals to help them purchase insurance, expansion of Medicaid eligibility and tax credits for small businesses that provide coverage. In March, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office revised its estimate on the gross cost of those provisions of the law over the next 10 years. The updated estimate — $50 billion higher than the year before — came to nearly $1.5 trillion.

But that’s only looking at one side of the budgetary ledger — cost. Even though Romney claims he factored those in, his figure ignores major cost-cutting provisions including cuts in the future growth of Medicare and increased payroll taxes and investment-income taxes on higher-income earners (the same ones Romney had just mentioned).

Once all those revenue streams are factored in, CBO has estimated that the law would actually reduce the federal deficit by $210 billion over the 2012-2021 period (see the CBO report: Table 1, page 2). CBO did not update that overall figure in its latest report."

And at least when I post an article from someone else I post the header at the top so that ppl don't think it's me talking.

Marconius wrote:
Those who can’t afford health insurance, who were supposed to be helped by the law, will be the likeliest group to be facing fines.

*Chuckle* All I can tell em is "good luck gettin it."

Miles1 wrote:

And at least when I post an article from someone else I post the header at the top so that ppl don't think it's me talking.

Come on Miles. I know for a fact that you are above this type of pettiness.

Miles1 wrote:

From factcheck.org:

"The costs of the insurance coverage provisions of the health care law include federal subsidies for lower-income individuals to help them purchase insurance, expansion of Medicaid eligibility and tax credits for small businesses that provide coverage. In March, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office revised its estimate on the gross cost of those provisions of the law over the next 10 years. The updated estimate — $50 billion higher than the year before — came to nearly $1.5 trillion.

But that’s only looking at one side of the budgetary ledger — cost. Even though Romney claims he factored those in, his figure ignores major cost-cutting provisions including cuts in the future growth of Medicare and increased payroll taxes and investment-income taxes on higher-income earners (the same ones Romney had just mentioned).

Once all those revenue streams are factored in, CBO has estimated that the law would actually reduce the federal deficit by $210 billion over the 2012-2021 period (see the CBO report: Table 1, page 2). CBO did not update that overall figure in its latest report."

So is, in your estimation, a cost to the government of 1.762 trillion with an offset of 510 billion and which leaves us a 1.083 trillion deficit (all of which is right there on page 2 of the report), by the CBO, is worth what we got???

Marconius wrote:

Miles1 wrote:

And at least when I post an article from someone else I post the header at the top so that ppl don't think it's me talking.

Come on Miles. I know for a fact that you are above this type of pettiness.

Yeah, you sort of caught me on a bad day there - we're in the process of buying our first house, and waiting to hear back on our offer. Then, my wife's company decide that this is a really good time to renew her contract, and screwed it up...

Miles1 wrote:

Marconius wrote:

Miles1 wrote:

And at least when I post an article from someone else I post the header at the top so that ppl don't think it's me talking.

Come on Miles. I know for a fact that you are above this type of pettiness.

Yeah, you sort of caught me on a bad day there - we're in the process of buying our first house, and waiting to hear back on our offer. Then, my wife's company decide that this is a really good time to renew her contract, and screwed it up...

Well I hope it works out in your favor. Life just gets better once you have your own home.

So, whens the house warming party???

Marconius wrote:

Well I hope it works out in your favor. Life just gets better once you have your own home.

So, whens the house warming party???

Well, they refused our first offer today, so the haggling has begun...

Miles1 wrote:

Marconius wrote:

Well I hope it works out in your favor. Life just gets better once you have your own home.

So, whens the house warming party???

Well, they refused our first offer today, so the haggling has begun...

Keep some Advil and some Pepto ready 'cause it can be a pain in the ass. Don't get discouraged. A house is worth the trouble.

You gonna put up some braggin pics after it is all said and done???

Good luck Miles.

Marconius wrote:

You gonna put up some braggin pics after it is all said and done???

Well, is a bit of a fixer-upper, so will take a good while (and a lot of $$$) before it's ready for ppl to be seeing pics of it....

Miles1 wrote:

Marconius wrote:

You gonna put up some braggin pics after it is all said and done???

Well, is a bit of a fixer-upper, so will take a good while (and a lot of $$$) before it's ready for ppl to be seeing pics of it....

Who cares if it's a fixer-upper???
Bottom line:
Its yours. You worked for it and it is worth being proud of.

Marconius wrote:
Who cares if it's a fixer-upper???
Bottom line:
Its yours. You worked for it and it is worth being proud of.

Well, my point was that the pics wouldn't be looking all that good until we do at least a bit of work on it (the outside is a hideous burnt orange color for one).

Well, we got it anyway, heard last night :-) Just have to hand over the money and sign the papers etc...

To tell you how bad the housing market is over here at the moment, we got the house for around 20% off the asking price, which itself was 50% down on what the house was originally put up for sale at 18 months ago. Until we came along, they hadn't any interest in it in around 6 months, and we're the first ppl to make an actual offer. Probably the only reason we got it so cheap is that we're "cash buyers", as in we're getting it from our combined savings so we don't have to worry about a mortgage approval. At the moment over here it's nigh-on impossible to get a mortgage, the banks are so scared of risk after the whole housing bubble thing that they're not lending to anyone who has even the slightest risk of non-payment (which these days is pretty much everyone, the way the economy is going).

Miles1 wrote:

Well, my point was that the pics wouldn't be looking all that good until we do at least a bit of work on it (the outside is a hideous burnt orange color for one).

Well, we got it anyway, heard last night :-) Just have to hand over the money and sign the papers etc...

To tell you how bad the housing market is over here at the moment, we got the house for around 20% off the asking price, which itself was 50% down on what the house was originally put up for sale at 18 months ago. Until we came along, they hadn't any interest in it in around 6 months, and we're the first ppl to make an actual offer. Probably the only reason we got it so cheap is that we're "cash buyers", as in we're getting it from our combined savings so we don't have to worry about a mortgage approval. At the moment over here it's nigh-on impossible to get a mortgage, the banks are so scared of risk after the whole housing bubble thing that they're not lending to anyone who has even the slightest risk of non-payment (which these days is pretty much everyone, the way the economy is going).

Congrats!!!!!!!!
Pop the cork baby!!!!!!!

It sucks about Ireland's market (or is it just your area). Seems that you are benefitting from bad times though. You gotta have some serious cash on hand (or borrow against your 401K) to buy a house with cash here in the states (at least a house worth buying). You are way ahead of the curve since you paid cash. Everything is now equity. Hopefully ya'll can fix it up a bit, let the market bounce back, sell it for a damn good profit and get something even better. Or you can keep it. Or rent it. Or whatever the hell you friggin want.

Anyway, congrats again I am very happy for you. If I wasn't at work out here in the Pacific, I'd even drink a beer or three to celebrate!!!

Marconius wrote:
Congrats!!!!!!!!
Pop the cork baby!!!!!!!

It sucks about Ireland's market (or is it just your area). Seems that you are benefitting from bad times though. You gotta have some serious cash on hand (or borrow against your 401K) to buy a house with cash here in the states (at least a house worth buying). You are way ahead of the curve since you paid cash. Everything is now equity. Hopefully ya'll can fix it up a bit, let the market bounce back, sell it for a damn good profit and get something even better. Or you can keep it. Or rent it. Or whatever the hell you friggin want.

Anyway, congrats again I am very happy for you. If I wasn't at work out here in the Pacific, I'd even drink a beer or three to celebrate!!!

Well, is only a verbal agreement on the price so far, am not popping any corks until we have a signature on paper at least.... We have a lot of cash saved up between msyelf and my wife, and we have just about enough for it if we wipe out our respective bank accounts. On the plus side though, being cash buyers means that from now on, whatever money comes in in our paychecks goes to us and not the bank or a landlord....

House prices all over ireland are going though the floor, the national average house price is somewhere like 50-55% of the price before the boom ended in 2007/8. And that's the average, some houses would have lost over 60% in value. And prices are still going down and there's no end in sight yet.

Cheers for the beer offer, so they'll just taste that extra bit better once you get on shore then ;-)