Border security

So the left says that the right has this fixation on a border fence, and that its ineffective and a poison pill for immigration reform. But i wnt to know why the left is so fixated on OPPOSING border fencing, particularly given the stats of places where fencing barriers are in place? Why would they be so opposed to it, as to let it sink the entire bill? Just doesnt make sense to me, unless of course youre an open borders loon

That's a good question!  And why is it so ineffective?  How would they know?  We've never had a border fence.  Not a really secure one.

The reason I think that many of us are adamant that we secure the border 1st is because we've been royally screwed in the past.  I think Reagan signed an immigration bill on the promise that Congress would fund the border fence.,  But the leaders of Congress (Dems at the time) refused after getting all the other benefits from this bill.

So the Conservatives just don't trust Harry Reid, Pelosi and the Dems anymore.

Well sure, that can account for conservative skepticism and insistence, but does nothing to explain the opposition.

Just guessing, but I think the Dems want so desperately to get votes from Hispanics that they are willing to sabotage the GOP's efforts to control the borders.  They have been successful at painting GOPers as racists.

True immigration reform would be to work with the Mexican government and solve the issues as to why so many feel the need to leave their country to make a living. If you wanna talk national security, you gotta talk about having a 3rd world country, controlled by the cartels right next door and not some 3rd world country, controlled by cartels on the other side of the globe.

My Senator Jeff Session sent this out a few hours ago:
 

Representatives for all three immigration enforcement agencies—ICE, Border Patrol, and U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services—have now come out in opposition to the Senate immigration bill. Although the House of Representatives has indicated it has no plans to take up the Senate bill, the immigration officers' opposition indicates just how much remains to be done to repair our broken and lawless immigration system.

 
Border Patrol agents have ‘serious concerns’ about Senate immigration bill
 
Interesting that even the people charged with enforcing immigration don't like the Senate's bill.  Also interesting that the House said it has no plan to take up the bill.  I think thee may be a lot of stuff in that bill that is pork, or gives Janet Napolitano too much leeway.

You guys know we only have 5000 ice agents in the whole country, whereas the LAPD has 10,000 men.

Sir Pun wrote:So the left says that the right has this fixation on a border fence, and that its ineffective and a poison pill for immigration reform. But i wnt to know why the left is so fixated on OPPOSING border fencing, particularly given the stats of places where fencing barriers are in place? Why would they be so opposed to it, as to let it sink the entire bill? Just doesnt make sense to me, unless of course youre an open borders loon

San Diego has a fence, yet the cartels still find plenty of ways to get drugs across (the most elaborate was a tunnel going from a warehouse in Mexico to a warehouse in San Diego). Its a waste of money. If you're hellbent on building that long of a fence, then do it. Just don't bog down much needed immigration legislation by making its implementation conditional on this fools dream.

Sir Pun wrote:You guys know we only have 5000 ice agents in the whole country, whereas the LAPD has 10,000 men.

I didn't know that.    Sounds like we ought to open up some jobs then.

Bryant wrote:

Sir Pun wrote:So the left says that the right has this fixation on a border fence, and that its ineffective and a poison pill for immigration reform. But i wnt to know why the left is so fixated on OPPOSING border fencing, particularly given the stats of places where fencing barriers are in place? Why would they be so opposed to it, as to let it sink the entire bill? Just doesnt make sense to me, unless of course youre an open borders loon

San Diego has a fence, yet the cartels still find plenty of ways to get drugs across (the most elaborate was a tunnel going from a warehouse in Mexico to a warehouse in San Diego).  Its a waste of money.  If you're hellbent on building that long of a fence, then do it.  Just don't bog down much needed immigration legislation by making its implementation conditional on this fools dream.

 I really don't see how its foolish though.  While its likely that drug cartels are able to get through, building no fence almost assures this will continue unopposed.  Also if they build this fence the right way, it should stem the flow quite a bit.  1 fence wont work.  We must build at least two parallel and have coils of razor wire between the fences.  This way it would take explosives to get through.

Tunnels whch are a problem, could be detected with technology (ground sensors, or whatever).  At this point we should then be able to control the flow through gates where immigrants are processed in an efficient manner.

After all this, we could discuss other options on what to do about immigration.  I favor going after businesses who knowingly hire illegals.  To protect businesses from making mistakes though, we should require tamper proof id cards and E-verify, all of which could be set up at the border when immigrants enter.

(Notice I didn't say we should kick in doors and round up families). 

Tellya something else.  Regarding the cost...I'd much much rather spend money on immigration reform and controlling our border, than sending billions to Egypt, Afghanistan and Pakistan.