Re: Judge: Foreigners can sue U.S. pastor over sermons

by Miles1 Tue Aug 20, 2013 6:33 am

Dennis324 wrote: But as I understand it, SMUG alleges Lively must be punished for criticizing homosexuality. Not conspiring to murder.

The implication then in America is that we cant criticize anyone or anything.

Nope. That's what the article you originally posted says. The actual case SMUG brought against him was for his actions in uganda over the last decade, and actually even explicitly says:

"This case seeks to challenge LIVELY’S conduct through his involvement in a conspiracy to severely deprive people of their fundamental rights on the basis of their identity. It is not, therefore, premised on his anti-gay speech or writings. LIVELY’S prolific, willfully misinformed and inflammatory rhetoric about the “evil” gay movement with his frequent depictions of gay people as “genocidal,” “psychopathic,” “exceptionally brutal and savage” and as child predators in Uganda and elsewhere, are relevant pieces of evidence insofar as they demonstrate his overall discriminatory purpose and the shared intent of the conspiracy to persecute in which he is intimately involved. They do not form an independent basis for a cause of action."

So, is not because of what he said, it's for what he's actually done, they're just using what he said as evidence of intent.

by Sir Pun Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:09 am

If anyone committed a crime, it would be the ugandan government then. otherwise we are to be arrested for ideas and beliefs? thats the same crap as hate crimes. murder a straight person and u just get murder. murder a gay guy and you get additional charges. how is that equal under the law? I just get so sick of progs and libs all about the defense of free speech, unless its something they dont want to hear. Are they so threatened by it that they cant stand to hear it? Anyway, if what this guy did is illegal then every kkk member should be locked up, along with nation of islam folks, and basically anyone with an offensive thought.

by Miles1 Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:36 am

Sir Pun wrote:If anyone committed a crime, it would be the ugandan government then. otherwise we are to be arrested for ideas and beliefs?

And that's the point of this case,this is what SMUG are trying to prove, that he did go beyond ideas and beliefs and took an active part in it.

murder a straight person and u just get murder. murder a gay guy and you get additional charges. how is that equal under the law?

Murder a straight person and you get murder, murder a gay guy and if they can prove you murdered them because you hated gays in general as opposed to you just thought the guy was an asshole, or you were robbing a store and he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, or if it was a lesbian who was sleeping with your wife, then you get extra stuff. It comes down to (or it should come down to ) intent.

I just get so sick of progs and libs all about the defense of free speech, unless its something they dont want to hear. Are they so threatened by it that they cant stand to hear it?

You could say the same about reps and conservatives, look at the article I posted the other day about the ex-marine who got booed by the "christian" group in San Antonio. Everyone is always in favour of free speech unless it's something you don't agree with.

Anyway, if what this guy did is illegal then every kkk member should be locked up, along with nation of islam folks, and basically anyone with an offensive thought.

Like I said, the burden of proof is on SMUG to prove he did something over and above what the KKK and the NOI normally get up to. If you read the brief I posted earlier, they accuse him of actually going to Uganda several times to strategize with anti-gay activists over there on ways "to dehumanize, demonize, silence, and further criminalize the LGBTI community". That goes beyond just talking about it, that's actively doing stuff. If the KKK started actively lynching blacks and planting burning crosses on lawns again, or if the NOI started doing the same to whites, then yeah, same thing, stomp on the fuckers.

by Sir Pun Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:46 am

And if he did that "stuff" here in the states, it would still be protected. And i know miles, you would have to yell fag or something while murdering them, but a murder is a murder, an assault an assault. Why not give extra charges to all motives then? Why not make it a hate crime to kill or beat someone up because you thought they were an asshole? Or because they were screwing your wife, or whatever. Point is, we're supposed to charge crimes not motives for those crimes. That essentially makes a minorities life more valuable than a straight white man's.

by Sir Pun Tue Aug 20, 2013 8:49 am

And you said to see if he took any active part in it. In what? Lobbying for the law, or killing gay ugandans? He's not an elected ugandan official is he?

by Miles1 Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:08 am

Sir Pun wrote:That essentially makes a minorities life more valuable than a straight white man's.

I thought at this stage that straight white men were the minority? ;-P

by Marconius Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:50 am

Bryant wrote:
He didn't simply say they were wrong, he allegedly consulted with the Ugandan government and allegedly convinced them to take draconian action against homosexuals.

Correction. This is tUSA ya'know. He hasn't been found guilty yet.

by Marconius Tue Aug 20, 2013 9:51 am

[quote="BryantThis man allegedly asked the Ugandan government to execute or imprison all homosexuals. How is this different? He allegedly asked and they did. This man may be the definition of evil.[/quote]

by Dennis324 Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:57 am

Miles1 wrote:
Sir Pun wrote:That essentially makes a minorities life more valuable than a straight white man's.
I thought at this stage that straight white men were the minority? ;-P

Maybe in Europe? lol!

by Marconius Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:22 am

[quote="Miles1
Well what about libel and slander laws then? How do you square them with the whole freedom of speech thing? [/quote]
Someone once told me, "you are still free to say those things, but only if you are willing to pay the price".

I said, "Those bangs really hide the lobotomy scar well".

Anyway, there is a nugget of truth there. Unlike what some are trying to do to one right, with free speech it isn't disallowed before hand. Course with ideas of pre-crime running rampant on one front, it won't be long before it runs rampant on others.

Threadjacked!!!!!

by Miles1 Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:46 am

Dennis324 wrote:
Miles1 wrote:
I thought at this stage that straight white men were the minority? ;-P
Maybe in Europe?

Just means more women to go around for those of us who are... Razz

by Miles1 Fri Aug 23, 2013 3:47 am

Marconius wrote:
I said, "Those bangs really hide the lobotomy scar well".

Judge: Foreigners can sue U.S. pastor over sermons - Page 2 Df20011025

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